posted 05-15-2007 03:55 PM                  

As for the black boxes in cars, I think I have a link to a list of what cars have them. It would be at home and I would have to do some searching to find it. The Prowler is not one of them, I remember looking. At least, my 97 wasn't.

posted 05-16-2007 01:35 AM                  

There was a time when vehicles with only 2 seats had the option to turn off the passenger bag, which is especially important if a small child in a child seat is in the passenger seat. When air bags were first introduced there were a number of decapitations of children by high air bag forces.

Actually now most cars, no matter if 2 or 4 door vehicles, turn off the passenger bag if no one is in the passenger seat.

Seat belts in many cars are now designed with tension controls to also adjust the forces of tension in an accident, again to protect smaller and lighter people, and also large persons. These are very complex systems triggered by a number of crash sensors mounted in various areas of the car. I can't speak for all manufacturers, but the products we manufacture will set off an air bag if you are in the seat, belt buckled or not. It is always in your best safety interest to buckle up.

Yes it is true that many bits of data are already logged by vehicle OBD (on board diagnostics). Every manufacturer is required to store a fixed amount of data by law. Some log more items, some less. Most of the information is emissions related, but generally cars today are driving down the road with on board computers controlling all engine, transmission, electrical and safety systems. You would be surprised how much information could be gathered off of OBD systems, so it could be possible that in the future "black boxes" could be used to review crash data by both the insurance companies and police.

While you can purchase an OBD reader to see general fault codes which all manufacturers must log, there are many codes only accessible with specialized download equipment specific to each manufacturer.

I have copied just one example of a system now in use on Ford products which I found on the Net, but many manufacturers use similar systems today. Although the article is dated (2002) the information is basically correct today. Hope this helps to show the complexity of these systems.

ARTICLE:FORD MOTOR COMPANY FITS AIR BAG SIZE TO OCCUPANTS
2002 NAIAS

DETROIT, Jan. 8, 2002 – Ford Motor Company is developing technology to make its comprehensive Personal Safety System™ even more effective with new air bag and safety belt technology that more closely matches the safety systems to the size of occupants and severity of a crash.

Ford is showing a preview of the new technology at this year’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

Today’s air bag and safety belt systems are designed to meet the needs of an average-sized 150-pound adult. Ford now is working on advancements to its Personal Safety system to allow it to distinguish between a child, small adult or teenager, average adult or large adult – and to deploy restraints accordingly.

The improvements will help to further reduce the risk of real-world fatalities and serious injuries for customers.

The patented Personal Safety System is today available on the Ford Taurus, Windstar and Crown Victoria, the Mercury Sable and Grand marquis, and the Lincoln Town Car. Later in 2002, it will become standard equipment on the Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer SUVs. The system will eventually be available on all Ford Motor Company cars, trucks and SUVs.

Today, the Personal Safety System uses a series of sensors to analyze accident and occupant conditions and determine how the air bags and safety belt restraints should respond for occupant protection in frontal crashes.

In the future, Ford is developing technology that could take into account not only crash severity, front seat safety belt use and how close the driver is to the steering wheel, but also a person's size. New sensors in the vehicle seats will be able to differentiate between a child, small adult, medium adult and large adult.

“Being able to determine the size of a person is key,” said Susan M. Cischke, vice president of Environmental and Safety Engineering at Ford. “In the future, we'll be able to make sure the appropriate type of protection is available and is tailored to fit an individual’s needs no matter how big or small they are.”

Today, the air bags in the Personal Safety System can deploy at two different stages, along with safety belt pretensioning and load-limiting seat belt retractors to manage crash forces on occupants. Pretensioners tighten the safety belt, while load-limiting seat belt retractors absorb an occupant’s energy by allowing a controlled release of seat belt webbing during a crash event.

In the future, the system could include adaptive tethered air bags and adaptive load limiting seat belt retractors to give different levels of energy management for different-sized passengers.

Tethered air bags allow a smaller portion of the bag to be used when appropriate for smaller occupants or those seated close to the steering wheel. The full-sized bag is still available for large-sized occupants or in severe crashes. A tethered air bag has strings tied inside limiting how big the bag can become when deployed. If the sensors determine that a full-size bag is needed, the “strings” are released. The size of the bag depends on such factors as crash severity, safety belt usage and passenger size. Depending on accident conditions, no bag, a tethered bag or full-sized bag could be deployed. If a child were in the passenger seat, an air bag would not be deployed under any conditions. Research is also underway to develop a system that could sense whether or not a passenger is out of position. That could become an additional factor in determining restraint deployment.

posted 05-16-2007 02:31 PM                  

Did find this on the web:

With a system capable of making decisions, the restraint system electronic control module (ECM) determines how many stages and in which sequence the airbags should be deployed. On these systems, during a collision, the restraints system ECM determines which seatbelts are in use, and how quickly the vehicle is decelerating. These inputs allow the ECM to determine if an airbag should be deployed, which airbag or airbags should be deployed, how many stages should deploy, and in which sequence (if the vehicle maker permits delayed or staggered deployment of their dual inflator system).

posted 05-16-2007 05:00 PM                  

After reading this a few times and thinking it through, You have to break down this statement into parts and then I think you will see they really didn't mean to say the seat belts need to be connected to trigger the bags. Here is what I think it says:

With a system capable of making decisions, the restraint system electronic control module (ECM) determines how many stages and in which sequence the airbags should be deployed. (TRUE: BY calculating all of the various input data from sensors throughout the car)

On these systems, during a collision, the restraints system ECM determines which seatbelts are in use, and how quickly the vehicle is decelerating. (In any system with seat belt pre-tensioners this is necessary, as the system will have to decide which gas generators to ignite to pre-tension the appropriate belts, and at what force factor based on the vehicle deceleration. This is not a trigger for air bag deployment. Air bags would still go off if no belt was connected, only belt pre-tensioners would not trigger)

These inputs allow the ECM to determine if an airbag should be deployed (Here they are referencing various sensor inputs, not if belt is connected. Air bag deployment is based on deceleration, vehicle speed prior to impact, and force of impact)

which airbag or airbags should be deployed, how many stages should deploy (triggered by sensors in seat bottoms in latest generation systems)

, and in which sequence if the vehicle maker permits delayed or staggered deployment of their dual inflator system. (again determined by various inputs based on deceleration, vehicle speed prior to impact, and force of impact)

I think the statement you posted was not clearly written by the writer, at least not from my understanding of how many of these systems function. It can lead the reader to think the seat belts trigger all of this action. JMO

I believe that you are a police officer, so I know for sure you don't believe everything someone tells you

posted 05-16-2007 07:23 PM                  

Sorry Tami

posted 05-16-2007 09:17 PM                  

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posted 05-16-2007 09:32 PM                  

quote:

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Originally posted by TFischer:
No - never have been a police officer, but Ed used to be. Tami

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