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lavka	Some time ago (over a year) a POA member posted that their older Dodge truck's lift pump failed causing catastrophic failure of the injector pump. All this while they were driving on the freeway which created a safety hazard because this type of failure causes immediate engine shutdown without warning. Well I own and older dodge diesel truck too, a 2001. I read that post and thought about getting my lift pump tested, but I did not. Wish I had. This week I am out $3900 because of the same problem. Luckily we were not driving in a hazardous area when it happened but we were left stranded with a livestock trailer in tow. Thankfully we had just unloaded all our cattle or we would have had a REAL problem being stranded in 100+ degree weather with a load of animals. I realize the newer dodge diesels have an in-tank liftpump that does not have this problem, but if you own an older (1998-2004???) dodge diesel truck, think about getting your lift pump tested by a service tech. There is a volumetric flow test in the service manual and if the pump fails it should be replaced, EVEN though it still pumps fuel. This is no BS. Save yourself some $$$ and a head-ache from getting stranded.
Gary C	Pricey aren't they. Glad you and the cattle are fine. Please give Dawn my best. later Gary P.S. I think this is my first post without making a "clean House" comment, lol...
MDProwler	quote: Originally posted by Gary C: Pricey aren't they. Glad you and the cattle are fine. Please give Dawn my best. later Gary P.S. I think this is my first post without making a "clean House" comment, lol... There may be hope for you yet. . . . . . NAAAH!!
phil2237	On the Dodge Diesel, The injection pump runs about $750.00 to rebuild. They also are very easy to remove and have rebuilt. You can PM me for a phone number and I will guide you thru it if you would like to tackle the job. If is just the lift pump. they are bolted to the left side of the engine and can be changed out in less than an hour. I believe the lift pump runs appox. $ 168.00 directly from Cummins. Also, the lift pump Will not damage the Injection pump if it quits, The engine will run out of fuel and stop. an Injection pump can be damaged if the engine loses oil pressure, , or water getting into the pump , but not by the lift pump failing. This message has been edited by phil2237 on 06-22-2008 at 05:36 PM
Kelley Austin	lavka, Did you have the low fuel pressure indicator light installed? If not you need to install it. It will let you know when you lose pressure from the lift pump and you can shut it down without damaging your injector pump. I didn't loose oil pressure and didn't have water in my fuel system. The only thing I do know is that I had to replace the lift pump AND the $1,500.00 Injector pump plus the labor to install it twice, because the first rebuilt injector pump was no good for a whopping total of $2,600.oo including towing fees etc.. I was told by the injector pump rebuilder that the lift pump failing did cause the injector pump failure. He told me he quit counting the number of injector pumps he had rebuilt at 6000 due to the same lift pump failure.
lavka	quote: Did you have the low fuel pressure indicator light installed? No I do not have this light on my truck. Is there a tech service bulletin about this? Never heard about it but I would like to do it. Thanks.
phil2237	I have been rebuilding Injection pumps for over 30 years.... A lift pump does nothing else, but to get fuel up to the injection pump. It will not hurt or damage an injection pump in any way. Alot of shops are rip offs and possibly sold you more than you needed. When you shut your key off, the engine stops as a selinoid cuts off the fuel, the same as if the lift pump would do when it fails.The engine will shut off. The injection pump on the Dodges usually start to fail after 100,000 miles, Some last alot longer. You Should change your fuel filter at every oil change to avoid any restriction in the fuel pressure, A bad fuel filter will damage a lift pump. It could also damage an Injection pump by restricting fuel to it. I personally have Never seen a Lift pump and Injection pump fail at the same time. Most Injection pump failures are caused by water in the fuel, or the weights inside come apart, as it only takes a drop to seize a barrel inside. That is why it is very important to replace your fuel filter often, Try to find Fleetguard filters , as they are made by Cummins and run about $10.00 to buy. They filter your fuel down to 4 microns. No water will pass thru it,if it is maintained often. This message has been edited by phil2237 on 06-23-2008 at 07:03 PM
lavka	Thanks for the good info. My truck is back home now with a new injection pump. I figure with 185,000 miles on the old pump I got my money's worth. The Lift pump was also replaced but apparently not with the same style as the original. It has been retrofitted with an in-tank style lift pump same as used on the newer trucks. I think the Mopar part number for this pump retrofit is 68003854AB. Hopefully I am ready to go for another 185K miles. I wonder about the issues the new Ultra Low Sulphur Fuel can cause with these older trucks. Does the Sulphur do anything to lubricate the pumps? This message has been edited by lavka on 06-23-2008 at 08:26 PM
phil2237	Not at all, If you notice, the motor oil you are suppose to be using ( 15w40 ) is also very high in sulfur
phil2237	This message has been edited by phil2237 on 06-24-2008 at 12:53 AM
Kelley Austin	phil2237, If your lift pump fails and you get no fuel to the injector pump, would that not be the same as restricting fuel to the injector pump? As you say restricting fuel by having a dirty fuel filter can cause injector pump failure. I am kind of confused. I think. This message has been edited by Kelley Austin on 06-24-2008 at 09:49 AM
phil2237	Kelly,If the lift pump fails, the engine stops immediatly, No damage done . To continue to drive, with a plugged filter, the lift pump is under continious strain to push fuel up to the pump. Also the Injection pump is trying to pull fuel as well. When you shut your key off, there is a selinoid that cuts the fuel off immediatly , which in turn shuts off the engine as well. No damage done. Driving with a plugged or restricted fuel filter puts alot of strain on these two pumps. You can check the filter every so often by removing it from the engine, empty the filter and wipe it off, blow in the top of the filter, If you can pass air thru the filter with ease, it's good, If there is any pressure felt, It should be replaced. The lift pump does nothing more that pull fuel from the fuel tank, The pump draws about 3 times the fuel needed, and returns the un needed fuel to the tank. If you have ever been around diesel trucks in cold weather, you will notice that the tanks are very warm after driving, as the fuel is constantly being cycled thru the pump and all unused fuel is returned to the fuel tank. One bad tank of fuel is sometimes enough to plug a filter. You can also add one half quart of power steering fluid to a full tank of fuel as this will help lubricate the injection pump and injectors. There are alot of additives you can choose from, but power steering fluid works very well, and alot cheaper to use. Your fuel is being filtered many times before being burned, This is why it is very important to keep a clean filter, Any kind of restriction will cause wear and tear on your fuel system. Alot of the pump failures you see today, are caused by lack of maintance. A clean filter will pro long your pump life. This message has been edited by phil2237 on 06-24-2008 at 10:56 AM
phil2237	Kelly, You stated that you had to pay for the removal and installation twice, All the shops that I have heard around here , warrenty their work for 1 year, Why did they charge you twice ?
Kelley Austin	It wasn't listed on the invoice as installing it twice. But with the total labor cost, towing fees, lift pump, re-built injector pump and on and on thay MUST have got their money for doing it twice.
phil2237	Kelly, The warning light that you have put in , only monitors the lift pump, Problem is, they usually don't give any warning before it acually fails. That price seems awful high, Dodge owners, that install the (in tank ) pump works very well, although it does not last any longer that the original, When they do fail, It is alot more time consuming to have to drain and drop the tank to replace. There is really no way to tell when a pump could or might fail. Keep the fuel clean is the best option you have to prolonging the pump life. I wish I would have seen your earlier post, as they are a few simple test to determine if and what part of your fuel system you really needed. This message has been edited by phil2237 on 06-24-2008 at 07:46 PM