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Author | Topic: Preventing Pitted Wheels??? |
GRROWL POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Herndon, VA |
posted 11-18-2004 07:41 PM
Seems like Jay Leno week: Another cool thing is this Ingersoll-Rand www.irgaragesolutions.com nitrogen generator I have. People don't realize how corrosive the air is--it's especially bad for a car's aluminum wheels. A lot of times, when you see old aluminum wheels, they're pitted on the inside. If you fill the tires with pure nitrogen, the wheels stay like new. Also, the pressure of a nitrogen-filled tire doesn't rise or fall like one filled with air. Put 32 psi in your Corvette tires, go out and do a few burnouts, and now you have 38 psi. But nitrogen won't do that. It stays where you set it. The nice thing about this Ingersoll-Rand nitrogen inflation system is that it's a generator, so it extracts the nitrogen right out of the air--for free. You don't have to call a guy to bring a huge tank of nitrogen. I'm running nitrogen in everything now. For whole article, see: This message has been edited by GRROWL on 11-18-2004 at 08:32 PM |
Orange unregistered Admin Use |
posted 11-18-2004 07:45 PM
Is this nitrogen thing true? |
butchcee POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Lake Ariel, Pa. |
posted 11-18-2004 08:06 PM
http://www.tirelast.com/ |
Orange unregistered Admin Use |
posted 11-18-2004 08:26 PM
quote: Went to the website, ended up getting a subsciption. That's the 2nd time this happened to me today (check out the 2007 camaro thread in off topic - there is a link to a popular hot rodding article...). Please, if you have to link any more magazine websites, wait a few days. |
toys POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:kensington Conn, USA |
posted 11-18-2004 08:36 PM
Let me see if i got this right, so.. all our wheels have pitted, peeled, blistered, and flaked BECAUSE WE PUT AIR IN THEM!!!. and if they haven't done any of the above yet. Using Nitrogen will prevent them from pitting, peeling blistering and flaking. Toys This message has been edited by toys on 11-18-2004 at 08:37 PM |
GRROWL POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Herndon, VA |
posted 11-18-2004 08:38 PM
Added Ingersoll-Rand link in first post, here's the nitrogen generator page: http://irgaragesolutions.com/n2/index.asp |
Jim C Prowler Junkie From:Corona, Ca |
posted 11-19-2004 01:36 PM
When you go to CostCo for tires, they now use nitrogen it doesn't loose pressure like normal air. Just think you wouldn't have to listen to the pleasant chime and annoying warning light very often if at all... |
ed monahan POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Cincinnati, Oh, USA |
posted 11-19-2004 11:00 PM
Tire Discounters here started pushing N2 in the Spring. The corrosion is inside the rim. I have had other aluminum wheels that started to leak due to the corrosion on the bead. On both PTs we have had valve stem leaks around the seal, not on the inside. Sandy just got a new one last week. http://www.prowleronline.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/004127.html This message has been edited by ed monahan on 11-19-2004 at 11:05 PM |
TooHipCat POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Londonderry,NH |
posted 11-20-2004 11:42 PM
Hmmm...I thought when you inflated a mounted tire on a rim regardless of what material it is made out of...the Air or Nitrogen comes in contact with the inside surface...NOT the outside surface where the chrome flaking takes place. You mean the air permeates through the entire thickness of the aluminum or steel and corrodes the opposite side and causes it to flake. Damn am I confused. I still feel the flaking is caused by bad prepping on the inside portion of the rims at the time of plating. Notice the outside portion of the rim isn't flaking. This message has been edited by TooHipCat on 11-20-2004 at 11:49 PM |
ed monahan POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Cincinnati, Oh, USA |
posted 11-21-2004 05:49 AM
It does come in contact with the inside surface. It does not cause the flaking of the chrome on the outside or visible part of the rim. I was not trying to state that. The corrosion is on the inside, non-visible, part of the rime. Not on the barrel of the rim. The edge of the inside of the rim gets corroded, causing a bad seal where the tire and the rim meet. Ironically, Sandy's tire is still losing air since they did not take it apart and clean the corrosion around the seat of the valve stem. It needs to be redone. This message has been edited by ed monahan on 11-21-2004 at 05:53 AM |
Kevin A POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Gahanna, Ohio |
posted 11-21-2004 07:22 AM
Nitrogen N2 78.084 % Oxygen O2 20.9476 % Argon Ar 0.934 % Carbon Dioxide CO2 0.0314 % Neon Ne 0.001818 % Methane CH4 0.0002 % Helium He 0.000524 % Krypton Kr 0.000114 % Hydrogen H2 0.00005 % Xenon Xe 0.0000087 % Let me weigh in on this a little and see if my Metallurgical Engineering classes at OSU (Go Bucks!) help. Air is 78% nitrogen. Nitrogen is used in jet airliner tires as well as some lasers because it dissipates heat efficiently. That is why the pressure stays stable after driving a nitrogen filled tire. Pitting is the result of a galvanic reaction in metal. Essentially the wheel becomes a battery and wherever electrons move away from point to go to another place you form a pit (or rust). That is why you see deposits on corroded aluminum rims because that is the aluminum going back to its original oxide state. My guess the ONLY benefit from using nitrogen to prevent corrosion is that if it is put in the wheel in a VERY DRY state (very low moisture content) it limits the amount of galvanic corrosion that can occur. Nitrogen by itself is USELESS in preventing corrosion. Corrosion needs a path for electrons to flow and moist air in tires can provide this path. If the installer traps any water between the bead and rim, all bets are off. The pitting we see on chrome wheels is simply from poor preparation by the manufacturer on the inside of the wheel barrel! Want to limit wheel damage on a Prowler? Keep the inside of the wheel clean and dry! Kevin (licensed Professional Engineer - Ohio and PROUD Prowler owner) ------------------ This message has been edited by kevina on 11-21-2004 at 07:26 AM |
butchcee POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Lake Ariel, Pa. |
posted 11-21-2004 07:33 AM
http://www.autosite.com/garage/repairqa/ques129.asp |
GRROWL POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Herndon, VA |
posted 11-21-2004 07:43 AM
quote: Thanks, Butchee, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. From your link: """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Another problem that sometimes plagues alloy wheels is porosity leaks. When an alloy wheel is cast, microscopic pores and voids may be left in the metal that allows air to slowly leak out of the tire. High pressure casting techniques have reduced, but not entirely eliminated, this problem. So some alloy wheels are painted or coated on the inside to help seal the metal. If you've experienced this kind of problem, and your wheels are not coated or painted inside, they might need it. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" I wondered if this is what Jay Leno was talking about: with air inside the tire, the porosity of the aluminum may allow the oxygen (and other reactive gases) to seep through and get underneath the chrome. With nitrogen, anything that seeps is inert. The suggestion of coating or painting the inside of the wheels may be another route to preserve the chrome. Yes, the wheels are c$%p. This may just be a way to mitigate the problem if pitting and peeling hasn't started yet. -GRROWL |
ALLEY CAT POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:mesa, az, USA |
posted 11-21-2004 09:10 AM
Very interesting guys, thanks. I know the racers use nitrogen in their tires for pressure stability. GRROWL - what is the cost to add this unit to home air compressor? This message has been edited by ALLEY CAT on 11-21-2004 at 09:19 AM |
butchcee POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Lake Ariel, Pa. |
posted 11-21-2004 10:09 AM
GRROWL, I remember when I was running real mag wheels(magnesium), and I had to varnish the inside of the rims so they would hold air because of the porous casting running a tubeless tire. |
GRROWL POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Herndon, VA |
posted 11-21-2004 10:19 AM
quote: quote: AC, I haven't priced it - don't have any room left in my garage. From it's appearance, and the statement that it "may be within the means of some car clubs to share one", I figure it's HIGH. Butchee, I had that suspicion that the aluminum's porosity contributed, but not the personal background to reach the conclusion. That's why I put it out there like I did - Thanks - you tied it all together (at least for me). -GRROWL |
Black Tie 161 POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:MD, USA |
posted 11-23-2004 08:42 AM
quote: A quick fix is to remove the stem partially and gob silicone on the threads...then screw the stem back on. Worked great on my one leaky rear tire after all 4 wheels were replaced but the o-ring seals were not replaced! |
Gary C POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:San Diego Area |
posted 11-29-2004 09:21 PM
Went to Costco and asked about this they only refill twice which doesn't get all the air out, it takes 5 times,,, I know this because I run it in my racecar |
ed monahan POA Lifetime Site Supporter Prowler Junkie Personal ScrapBook From:Cincinnati, Oh, USA |
posted 11-29-2004 11:24 PM
quote: There are no threads on the part that leaks. That is the rubber part that is pulled thru the rim. It is not the inside of the stem that is leaking, it is where the rubber meets the rim, at the base of the valve stem. |
Flyboy POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Tampa, Fl. USA |
posted 11-30-2004 10:05 AM
I'm going to treat my newly found flakes with ACF 50. It is an anti-oxidizing treatment used in the aircraft industry and it works. There is another out there, but I don't know it's name. I'm on my third set of wheels. Hugh |
GRROWL POA Site Supporter Prowler Junkie From:Herndon, VA |
posted 11-30-2004 03:40 PM
quote: Hey, Gary, been a while. Actually, the mathematics state that you can NEVER replace all of the air since the remaining air is an asymptotic function that may APPROACH zero, but never reach it. 5 refills is probably the practical optimum and I would guess leaves only a couple percent of the original air remaining. If you know what percent a single refill accomplishes, it's an easy matter to calculate what it will be after 2 refills, or 5 refills, or whatever. def: as·ymp·tote asymptotic |
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