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Prowler Ball Joint Recall

service manual says,warning.

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Author	Topic: service manual says,warning.
jan bruggeman unregistered Posts: 1038 From: Weatherford,Texas,USA Registered: DEC 2001	posted 05-08-2003 09:16 AM read my manual last night to see if it said anything about seperating ball lwr.joint from a arm,which it doesnt.it does say however,that when removing lwr.nut which holds knuckle to arm, that nut must be replaced,do not reuse lwr. nut.bet not many dealers know that and arent doing it.new joint may come w/nut.just make sure they dont use old one. black tie,guess dc hasnt read there own manual.people who have had yours done,was nut replaced.im considering not having mine done, to many horror stories.although i will have mine checked. ------------------ This message has been edited by jan bruggeman on 05-08-2003 at 10:14 AM
Black Tie 161 Prowler Junkie Posts: 3563 From: MD, USA Registered: JUL 2002	posted 05-08-2003 09:41 AM That's a great point, and you are %100 correct! ...so why didn't Chrysler include the extra nuts NEEDED with the new ball joints to prevent mistakes?!? The way DC handled the recall disgusts me! Cheap bastids!
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-08-2003 11:03 AM Before starting the name calling, screaming, yelling and making false and inflamatory statements like these maybe you both should do a little more research! Since inception, the ball joint nut have always been a single use product. Any decent dealer or mechanic should know this. When a dealer orders the recall parts, they are ordered as a kit using part #CBBTC030 and it includes 2 lower ball joints and 2 lower ball joints nuts as well as 2 upper ball joint nuts and a couple more nuts and washers. ALL of the above listed parts are new and should be used when doing the recall. Sorry if I seem a little grouchy about this but I'm getting very tired of people with little or no mechanical knowledge, blaming DC for all of the problems they encounter during this recall or even other repairs done by their dealers. This is a matter of dealers not having the required tools, unqualified mechanics doing sloppy or incorrect repairs and service departments not spending the time or money to do the job right. Go to a good dealership that has a good mechanic with the correct tools and you should have no damage or problems whatsoever. Ontario Chrysler has done MANY of these recalls and I have not heard of ONE PERSON that was not completely satisfied nor have I heard of any car that has any kind of damage from the recall work. Many of these recalls were done to cars with painted arms, chromed plastic arm covers and even polished and chrome plated arms. The job can be done right by a trained mechanic, using the correct tools and it has been many times in Ontario Chrysler's service department as well as many other service departments. Making statments like this about something you have no knowledge of is totally irresponsible and only causes others to be upset and question or distrust even the best mechanics and service departments. This ain't the National Enquirer! Find the truth and get the facts before you make a post like this! This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 05-08-2003 at 11:20 AM
WPG Prowler Enthusiast Posts: 841 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: AUG 2000	posted 05-08-2003 11:18 AM Had my ball joints replaced yesterday. The first thing I noticed upon inspection was that it now had two brand new shiney nuts. ------------------ Bill Gallagher Magic Touch Designs Inc 1999 Red www.MagicTouchDesigns.com • *MTD* Prowler Intake System 2.2 • *MTD* Bypass Kit • *MTD* Suspension Frame Braces • Other Modifications
jan bruggeman unregistered Posts: 841 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: AUG 2000	posted 05-08-2003 12:04 PM larry,maybe you could tell us of a good dealer in phx. area. ones i wont take it to are just about all of them.all the major ones,and that includes dodge and chrysler.airpark.ed moses, pitre,bill luke.havent tried bell.yet .dont be so grouchy.larry ,may take you up on that in the future,im going to hve mine checked by a indepedant first to see if there any binding of parts going on.then wait till one of these dealers has done a few of themand maybe have mine done if it needs it.when are you going to put a good cruise together.ac and i are ready. ------------------ This message has been edited by jan bruggeman on 05-08-2003 at 12:14 PM
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-08-2003 12:08 PM Jan, Just do like some of the others have done or are doing. Make an appointment for service, repairs or even the recall at Ontario Chrysler for a date on the same day or near one of our events and have the work done while you are out here enjoying the fine California sunshine. My house is always open to the Prowler owners if you need a place to stay. This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 05-08-2003 at 12:11 PM
idive Prowler Junkie Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-08-2003 12:25 PM Larry - you talk alot about it simply being a matter of going to a good reputable dealer with good mechanics. I took mine to the dealer I bought it from. There are many other dealerships closer, but I drove to the other side of town to go to them. They are a 5 star dealership. I have always been satisfied with their work. I had recall damage and am having problems getting repairs to the damage. I felt I was going to a good reputable dealership with competant mechanics. I also asked 4 times if they had the proper required tools BEFORE having my recall work done. They told me they did, but I now have my doubts. I did not oversee the work, but not knowing what the extra tools were at the time, I wouldn't have known the difference. THAT specific info came to us later. With all due respect, you get tired of people with little or no mechanical knowledge, blaming others when all they need to do is simply go to the right person to have the work done in the first place. I'm not a know-it-all mechanic myself, but I felt I did the best I could do to get the work done by the right people. You have YET to provide us non-knowers with a listing of all the competant, reliable people to do this work, or even ways we would know just the right mechanic to go to. Yes, I'm tired of this whole debacle myself, but look at the poll results I recently did where it showed a 23% damage rate nationwide. That represents an overwhelming number of dealerships representing that their mechanics were properly and adequately trained when they obviously were not. I would like to know exactly how to go about picking out a different place to go for any future work I have done. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us ALL on this.
jan bruggeman unregistered Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-08-2003 02:29 PM idve,i totally agree.want to read a real horror story,see my post,entitled engine story.im personally sick/tired of all those incompetent chrysler techs out there who are supposed to be ase certified.that ase use to mean something,not any more .im going to sue that dealer for alot,he screwed up my car.the post is under off topic.they get what they deserve,the worst thing is dc doesnt care.if they did they would do something about it.ps.i also wk.for a gm dealer,and they arent much different.fortunately im in the collision end. ------------------ This message has been edited by jan bruggeman on 05-08-2003 at 02:35 PM
sam771 unregistered Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-08-2003 05:54 PM Jan, Print out all the problems in the past take along with you when you have them replace the ball joints, tell them if they scratch the a-arms they have to replace it. I did have my done and they have been done a great job. Go see Larry Lord spent time and have them done right over there.
Marc-Colo-99 Prowler Junkie Posts: 1614 From: Aurora, Colorado Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-08-2003 07:54 PM Originally posted by Larry Lord: Sorry if I seem a little grouchy about this but I'm getting very tired of people with little or no mechanical knowledge, blaming DC for all of the problems they encounter during this recall or even other repairs done by their dealers. Larry I agree. Had mine done weeks ago and no problems. Course I'm pretty mellow about the car (heck I paid to cut a hole in the hood). Made sure they had the parts, tools and talked to the front end tech (not Prowler tech) while he did it. ------------------
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-08-2003 09:01 PM idive - Either I didn't make my feelings clear or you missed my point completely. BT161 in particular accuses DC of being "Cheap Bastids" and even goes so far as to tell everyone that the required parts are not included in the recall kit. This is totally false, and when posted, it becomes fact to many people. BT161 also states that he is digusted with the way DC handled the recall. That's OK! That's his opinion just as this one is mine and I'm very happy with the way my recall was handled. What I'm trying to say is that there are many people (as in the post above) that seem to feel everything is the fault of DC. This is not the case at all. The recall work has been done many times by qualified mechanics using the correct tools with few if any problems or damage. While I don't contest the fact that you have damage, I need to remind you that it was caused by the person doing your recall work and not DC the parent company. My point is that the damage was done by the person who did the work while working for that dealership. In my opinion your problem is with your dealership and not DC the parent company. It was not caused by DC or by the service procedures or tools designed for and used to complete the recall. Me reccommend a shop that I don't know personally? You've got to be kidding! Many of the Prowler owners are so fanatical about their cars and have such high expectations that I wouldn't even work on them unless I knew the owner personally. Marks and scuffs do happen when removing and replacing parts. It's a fact of a mechanics life. The real problem as I see it is that almost everything on a Prowler is visible. On a standard model car you normally never see anything because it's under your car or your fenders and out of sight. Let's not forget that even though owning a Prowler can be an incredible life changing experience, the fact is that Prowlers are just cars and like every other machine on the road they will at some time need some repairs. It's not the end of the world unless you let it be. This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 05-08-2003 at 09:17 PM
idive Prowler Junkie Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-08-2003 09:59 PM Jan - I read about your horror story. That's pretty sickening. Good luck on the outcome. Larry, I appreciate the tempered reply. And you are correct, the parts kit does include new nuts and the instructions state to remove and discard the old nuts and to use the new ones. I don't have a manual yet (its being shipped as I type) but if it doesn't state to discard the old ones, it should. We have already established that the manual was wrong with respect to upper ball joint torque. But I was serious in asking how to find a competent mechanic without trial and error... after the error, being too late. There is a difference in you providing us a shop you don't know personally, and giving us pointers to find a good one BEFORE we go to a bad one. I have seen many of your posts in here that, IMO, seem to put people down for being less knowledgeable than others. This is a forum to expess opinions and gather information from those that DO have the better knowledge. I just think, sometimes, there is a better way to communicate that without condemning them in the process. I've read 2 posts now of mechanics removing the boot clip before removing the ball joint, making it much easier to remove without damage. This procedure could simply have been included in the instructions to the mechanic from DC, and that little bit of information MIGHT have saved many from the damages they have suffered. I feel that, in that respect, DC played a part to some degree in some of the damages suffered. I think the dealers are representatives of DC. Maybe your dealer handles things differently, but mine tells me that before they can fix my damages, DC has to inspect and approve them. I'm NOT under any warranty. I feel that if DC must be involved like that, then it makes DC culpable to some degree. Yes, the dealer also shares the liability. I have also read many posts of no recall damages, proving it can be done by a good mechanic, but the dealers, as a DC representative using the Chrysler name and selling their products only with their approval, are representing to you and I that their mechanics are properly and well trained technicians that use the correct tools for the specific job, and that just isn't so in too many cases. I hope I have made myself clear without too many hard feelings. No offence intended.
CJ Prowler Junkie Posts: 18860 From: Rochester Hills, MI USA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-09-2003 07:36 AM Larry....thank you for your comments regarding this issue and DC. The consumer seems to forget that dealers are independent business owners. As we have talked about in the past on this board, Prowler techs did receive training from DC, if the dealer decided to pay to have any of their techs attend this training, purchase the Prowler tools, etc. This holds true of any of their repair technicians. The dealership is the one who hires their own technicians and is the one responsible for making sure they are qualified. Unfortunately, dealerships have revolving doors and techs come and go. DC can only track the Prowler techs if the dealers or the techs notify DC when they move to other dealerships. If a dealer loses his Prowler tech, he is not obligated to replace them....that is his choice. DC has no control over this. DC does provide the tools, parts and technology for proper repairs on ALL of their vehicles, as do the other auto manufacturers. However, the consumer has to rely on the integrity of the dealership owners to provide competent technicians. Having proper repairs done on a Prowler is no more challenging than having proper repairs done to any other vehicle. There are great auto technicians and bad ones, just like there are great doctors, teachers, etc. just as there are bad ones. Place the responsibility and the blame where it should be.. with the dealership and its technicians. Remember also, that the dealership will also try to pass responsibility to DC...when, in fact, they are the ones responsible for the work they do. I worked for a dealership for several years and believe me, I've seen it first hand. The "back end" as it's called, always wants to blame someone else for their mistakes. This message has been edited by CJ on 05-09-2003 at 07:44 AM
Thunder Prowler Junkie Posts: 456 From: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Registered: FEB 2003	posted 05-09-2003 12:21 PM I think if the Dealer chooses to sell the Hi Performance line of Chryslers' cars, Viper, Prowler, Crossfire, they should be required to have a certified Technician for these vehicles.
tangled up in BLUE Prowler Junkie Posts: 11086 From: New Castle, Ind Registered: DEC 2000	posted 05-11-2003 09:43 PM ....I can only give good revues about my dealer(Goodwin Dodge, New Castle, In) performing the recalls.....the cars were scheduled at my convenience, the mechanic handled the cars like fine china.....I am not a real fussy person I suppose, but I saw nothing at all to be alarmed about....I did notice a distinct difference in the way the car drives after the recall was completed...it has a much tighter feel, even a passenger noticed the difference....due to this being a Chrysler town, there are lots of Prowlers(over a dozen) and Vipers(at least 10)..... I have never heard a complaint from anyone about the service dept......I stopped in last week in a Viper I didn't even buy there and the Viper Tech came out to the lot and checked/fixed a small problem for me IMMEDIATELY, and didn't even charge me.....I know some dealers have their problems....try to find one that has been there for a long time, and the staff has been there for a long time also.....I just never have a complaint....my cars are returned clean, undamaged and fixed right the first time.....now our local GM dealer, that is another situation....I also have a couple of Vettes and will not take them to the local Chevy dealer again....I have had poor service their for the last time.....the last time I was there they told me they didn't work on Vettes because the owners were to particular...it was a battery problem, I didn't see whether it made any difference if it was a Vette or a Cavalier....I asked them what the difference was, then asked them to call Mr Goodwrench....it was decided they could then change a battery........
Black Tie 161 Prowler Junkie Posts: 3563 From: MD, USA Registered: JUL 2002	posted 05-12-2003 07:05 AM Yeah I overeacted....and I followed a bad lead of info...And I did ask the question wrong about the new nuts. I really meant to ask IF the nuts are included in the recall kit.....I didn't mean to alarm, but ask a question. But I am still fuming about the recall procedure being botched with improper torque specs....Chrysler could have double checked the specs before the release, (if it was such an obvious mistake that was apparent to mechanics who know their stuff)....But I'm not a mechanic and I don't even play one on TV. Larry: Question...I am a victim of the overtorquing...(My punishment for taking care of the recall immediately) When they backed the nuts all the way out and retourqued them to the proper number. Should I have gotten new nuts then? Just wondering about that. For the record, I like and trust my service dept. and some of these tech threads drive me nuts as I worry about the car more than I do about me... And I have scraping on the inside of one of the knuckles and I saw the procedure done properly. Know what I did about it? NOTHING. Yes, it is still a car and I won't lose any car shows with a little scrape on the inside knuckle. I must pick my battles or lose the war!
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-12-2003 11:57 AM [QUOTE]Originally posted by idive: I was serious in asking how to find a competent mechanic without trial and error... after the error, being too late. There is a difference in you providing us a shop you don't know personally, and giving us pointers to find a good one BEFORE we go to a bad one. I have seen many of your posts in here that, IMO, seem to put people down for being less knowledgeable than others. This is a forum to expess opinions and gather information from those that DO have the better knowledge. I just think, sometimes, there is a better way to communicate that without condemning them in the process.I hope I have made myself clear without too many hard feelings. No offence intended. [QUOTE] Idive, I'm sorry if I came across in the way you described. I try to go out of my way to answer questions and help any of the Prowler owners that I can. I do however have a short fuse when people post information that is inflammatory, inaccurate or incorrect. Once posted, this misinformation is read by many and believed by people that are looking for answers and have little mechanical experience. I try to not answer anything unless I have actual working knowledge or have checked with sources that do. You will notice that I'm not much into chat and usually only post an event or some technical information that I have. Again, I'm sorry if I came across as trying to put anyone down or condemn them in any way as that was not my intent. You have asked some valid questions about how to find a good dealer. My suggestions are to talk to the service manager at the dealer, ask if they have the correct tools and training, talk to the Prowler Tech at the dealer (if they don't have one, find a dealer that does) be sure to express your concerns of care for your car, but most importantly, talk to other Prowler owners and check this website often to find where others get the best service and support those dealers. There are good dealers and good mechanics out there. Sometimes they are not near you but often they are more than worth the drive. Make a road trip and an adventure out of the drive to the best dealer in your area. It sounds to me like you've done most of these suggestions already and I congratulate you for taking the time to ask questions. If you have had damage, it's still the dealers fault and not the fault of DC the parent company. The recall can be done correctly and it can be done with no damage. Your dealer is putting up a smoke screen in my opinion. They caused the damage and only they should be responsible for it. This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 05-12-2003 at 12:19 PM
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-12-2003 12:18 PM quote: Originally posted by Black Tie 161: Larry: Question...I am a victim of the overtorquing...(My punishment for taking care of the recall immediately) When they backed the nuts all the way out and retourqued them to the proper number. Should I have gotten new nuts then? Just wondering about that. The nut is a single use nut that has a plastic crush sealing collar around it. Once tightened, the crush collar seals out contamination. If the nut is loosened after being over torqued it may not seal as well when torqued to a lower spec. This is a very minor problem in my opinion as we're only talking a minute amount of crush variation but technically I would say the correct answer is yes, they should be replaced.
Black Tie 161 Prowler Junkie Posts: 3563 From: MD, USA Registered: JUL 2002	posted 05-12-2003 01:30 PM Thanks Larry, so what you are saying is that if they didn't put on a new nut when retorquing, the world will not come to an end and both wheels won't fall off... I plead guilty of panicking when I read info that seems contradictory to what service I have had done. But I DO trust and like my service dept. so there we go. So I should just chill a bit and wish I took as good care of myself as my car....LOL
idive Prowler Junkie Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-12-2003 02:46 PM No problem Larry. We all get intense from time to time, myself included. I appreciate the tips.
Ray unregistered Posts: 8483 From: Texas USA Registered: APR 2003	posted 05-12-2003 06:33 PM Is anyone keeping track of what years have actually shown signs of failure versus those that are just getting the darn thing replaced? I have YET to get a mailing on my '99 and AM the original owner. I also have the shiny a-arms and DO NOT want the hassle of damage occuring to these that are no longer available. At this time I have NO plans to take the car in for the recall, not withstanding the fact that I didn't get a notice ... anyone here keeping a log by year? Curious more than anything. Thanks
Larry Lord Prowler Junkie Posts: 3709 From: Colton, CA Registered: JUL 2000	posted 05-13-2003 12:34 AM BT161 - I gave you the wrong information in my last response. Sorry, it's been a few long days at work lately. The information that I posted was regarding the lower ball joint nut and it's plastic crush collar. The upper ball joint nut has no collar on it but is still a single use nut. Here are a couple of pictures of the parts in the Ball Joint Recall #CO3 parts package. No pattern that I've heard of Ray. Pretty much across the board, old and new, low and high miles. This message has been edited by Larry Lord on 05-13-2003 at 09:06 AM

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